Clinician, social worker, best-selling author, keynote speaker and interventionist, Dr. Louise Stanger returns to the show to share the work she is doing to help individuals and families thrive.
Dr. Louise explains the process of ‘family mapping’ and why she is so passionate about doing really good family work. She talks about the importance of taking care of yourself both mentally and physically and shares her ‘why.’
Key Takeaways
01:24 – Dr. Louise Stanger joins the show to discuss her goal of helping individuals and families thrive
06:59 – Dr. Flowers talks about his passion for flying
12:12 – Family mapping, explained
22:18 – Dr. Flowers thanks Dr. Lousie for the incredible work she continues to do
23:37 – How Dr. Louise manages to take great care of herself
29:51 – Dr. Flowers expounds on his ‘Why’
31:24 – Dr. Flowers thanks Dr. Louise for joining today’s show and lets listeners know where they can connect with her
Resources Mentioned
JFlowers Health Institute – https://jflowershealth.com/
JFlowers Health Institute Contact – (713) 783-6655
Subscribe on your favorite player: https://understanding-the-human-condition.captivate.fm/listen
Dr. Louise’s Website – https://www.allaboutinterventions.com/
Dr. Louise’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/drlouisestanger/
Dr. Louise’s YouTube Video –
Dr. Louise’s Number – (619) 507-1699
Look for Dr. Louise’s Interview on Katie Couric’s Podcast ‘Next Question’ –
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/next-question-with-katie-couric/id1134154895
Dr. Louise Stanger – Interventionist, Clinician, Keynote Speaker
Dr. Louise’s Books:
Learn to Thrive (Free Download) – https://www.allaboutinterventions.com/learn-to-thrive/
Silver Tsunami (Free Download) – https://www.allaboutinterventions.com/aging-and-addiction/
The Definitive Guide to Addiction Intervention: A Collective Strategy – https://www.allaboutinterventions.com/books/
Books Mentioned
The Alexandria Quartet – https://www.amazon.com/Alexandria-Quartet-Lawrence-Durrell/dp/0571283934
**The views and opinions expressed by our guests are those of the individual and do not necessarily reflect those of J. Flowers Health Institute. Any content provided by our co-host(s) or guests are of their opinion and are not intended to reflect the philosophy and policies of J. Flowers Health Institute itself. Nor is it intended to malign any recovery method, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual, or anyone or anything.
🎙️🎙️🎙️
Podcast Production & Marketing by FullCast
—
Listen to the podcast here
Dr. Louise Stanger – The Family Whisperer: The Importance of Good Family Work [Episode 77]
Family Whisperer
I am so excited to have one of my dearest best friends in the world, Dr. Louise Stanger. Louise is an author, speaker, social worker, professor, a grandmother, and a mother.
If you have any other terms of endearment, I’m going to ask you to keep it to yourself and a good friend. How many times have we been together?
Thousands at this point.
I’m always so excited and so energized when I come to Houston and see J. Flowers because it’s always evolving, always something new, and always something cutting edge. I just love that about you.
Thank you. We’ve done a lot of work together over the years and you’re in Houston with families and working with some of the families. I just wanted to say thank you for being here and for taking time to do this episode before you hop on a flight back to California.
I’m so excited to be here and always, it’s such a joy to be on a show with you.
Thank you.
What I love about working with families that you have is I get to work in such a collaborative generational way because I get to work with different types of clinicians that you have. They all have different ages and experiences and yet we all come together to process with the idea of the greater good of how can we help this person thrive and help them discover their why.
“What I love about working with families is that I get to work in such a collaborative, generational way with different types of clinicians of different ages and experiences, and yet we all come together with the greater good of ‘How can we help this person thrive?”
Something you told me, is we were talking about your blogs. We all get Louise Stanger’s blogs. If you don’t get Louise’s email, then we’re going to tell you how to connect with Dr. Stanger shortly at the end of this episode but you should become a member of your MailChimp so you can read her weekly emails because they’re quite interesting. Her blogs are always amazing and fun to read. How many did you say you had done?
I asked them. I said, “What are we doing?” He said, “You have done over 400 blog post.” I go, “Oh my goodness.” You always ask me or someone would say, “Who’s your ghost writer?” I turn around and I look and I go, “Oh, it’s me.”
There is no ghost in the room.
There is no ghost writer. Oftentimes, I have a wonderful gentleman that’s now in Georgia. He used to be in Tennessee. He corrects my grandma because, honestly, I create words and I have some run on sentences. Hats off to Marcus Crutcher who takes and puts my words to music but has been doing it for years.
I was going to say he’s been doing it for a long time.
With my first book. He’s the one that helped put the first book, Falling Up together. I’ve watched him grow because he had just been newly married. Now he has two children that’s maybe that’s year 4 or 6. We’ve been working together since 2018. It’s so nice and so responsive.
Four hundred blogs is a lot of blogs. I wonder if there might be a book in those blogs.
We were thinking about categorizing my favorite blogs or the ones that had the biggest hits. Taking a look at those and seeing what they are. What I was excited about is, you and I have something in common on a personal level. We both grew up in families that we would call alcoholic. We both grew up in families that experience trauma, death by suicide, mental health, and substance abuse. I thought like I would do a new twist on a very prominent thing with so many of our families have grown up. One out of every three families grows up with something going on.
It may be even more than 1 out of 3 but good number.
Often, when we meet people, we had families that were wanting them to repair and not repeat, but no one seems to ask the question, what was the most painful event or most significant event of your child?
They always say which are earliest memory, what do you remember, and what was your best memory but you never hear, what is the most traumatic memory that you have of your child?
What us the most liked about your child because that can give you inroads to how maybe you act. If you can uncover that, unpack it, toss it up and change up the noodles, you have a different way of thriving.
That’s right and that’s our goal. They’re both your goal and my goal. Working with the patients with whom we both work is always out to allow them to get to a space where they can go thrive and just function highly and fly.
Speaking of that, you mentioned the word sloth.
That’s been on my mind a lot lately.
Flying
I know, but what I love about you and about J. Flowers, you feel like you’re flying up high when you do those evaluations because you’re taking that huge lift and you’re looking down at all the peaks, valleys, rivers, and orchards and everything, which reminds me you do fly, don’t you?
I do. I don’t talk about it a lot, even with some of my closest friends. I was talking about going to fly and they said, “Do you mean like on United?” I was like, “No, as in like as a pilot in a airplane.” I am a pilot. I got my pilot’s license, Louise. I will never forget. It was a Saturday morning. I was getting ready for my FAA flight exam and I was nervous already on early Saturday morning. I turn on the news and it was July the 16th of 1999. Do you what happened on July 16th of 1999? The not good news for pilots and the country in general.
It was the day that JFK Jr., unfortunately, crashed his plane on his way to Martha’s Vineyard. There I was watching TV, getting ready for my FAA flight exam and JFK crashes his airplane. I thought, “Oh my gosh. Now I have to go sit for this exam and I have to fly with an FAA examiner,” but I’ll never forget that date that I received my certificate to fly. I loved to fly. It’s a passion that I have. It’s part of my own therapy other than seeing my own therapist weekly. I go out and fly as much as possible.
When I’m up in the air flying, I’m paying attention to the instruments and to the horizon. I’m listening to music and my hair in my headset. It’s just in our traffic control and others talking but it’s a great quiet time for me to relax and have some therapy. Sometimes, flying to Austin, San Antonio, Baton Rouge, Charles, New Orleans, or what have you but I plan to fly up to Cape Cod, which would be nice. I may fly out to California, see you and pick you up.
I would love that.
One of my favorite memories of coming out and to seeing you and John is we went to, what was the museum?
Willis Allen Jr.’s museum. Willis Allen is a great collector. A private airplane including Lindbergh’s original plan and he flies everywhere. There’s just so much joy in being up, up and away. My only experience with having any type of airplane or aeronautic was with my first husband. He owned the first hot air balloon in all of San Diego way before.
No way. I learn something about you every day.
We would go up and it was in those days. It was pretty. It was blue and white, but now they’re just so magnificent. We took off from the flower fields behind us. One time, he got arrested. This is a classic story. We’re going out in the ocean and he was an iconic classic dentist, a little eccentric and everything. They were flying but instead of going out to the ocean. They landed in a farmer’s field. They were farmer’s fields in Del Mar at the time and there was a bull and the bull was in heat.
Was balloon red by chance?
It was white and blue. The farmer called the police and the police said, “You are trespassing.”
I’ve never heard that story and then you had to go bail your husband out of jail.
I did. We had to bail him out in the farmer’s field and go get the balloon. It was pretty funny.
I was going to say what a fun memory.
It was. It is a fun memory. Being up high and going in those little places is great. Where I live now, I can’t wait to introduce one of our neighbors to you because he’s just busy flying. I understand that Gavin, Felicia’s son.
Your grandson.
He is going to Oshkosh because he wants to be a pilot. Who would have known?
How old is he?
He’s sixteen.
How could fly now. I think you can fly at fourteen.
Some of the young men I’ve had have taking flying lessons, which is taking them away from some of the difficulties they’ve had. I’m so excited that you get to follow your passion and do, what’s your wild idea.
Family Mapping
Sometimes, it can be a wild idea to go out and fly. Again, it’s just something I’ve done my whole life. My father was a pilot. Not professionally. He had a small airplane when I was growing up. It was always fun flying with him. I have some of the same stories about probably getting arrested as a pilot that my father did but/or shouldn’t have done. Being a social worker, you work with a lot of families. One of the things I remember that you love to do is family mapping. Our audience is always asking, tell me about what parents is always asking and tell me about family mapping. Let’s talk about family mapping for just a second.
Everybody knows or hears about what a genogram is. Family mapping is not your ordinary genogram. I’m so blessed because you give me families to work with. What I do is, I interview everybody individually. I have this huge piece of paper that’s like butcher block and that magic Sharpie colored pen that makes me look like I am some artists, which I’m not but we take a trip. When I interview everyone individually, the research methodology is called Portraiture developed by Sara Lawrence-Lightfoot out of Harvard.
I just want to learn about the family and everybody has a different perspective. We know there might be an identified loved one and that might be the client that’s at Flowers or the client that’s struggling but everybody has their own story. Before you can ever work with family, you have to join up with that family member. In seven seconds, whether it’s a mom, a dad, a brother, a sister, an uncle or a partner, they decide if they like me or not.
“Everyone has their own story. To work with a family, I must connect with them in just seven seconds—whether it’s a parent, sibling, or partner. I ask, “Tell me about you and your loved one,” and then we dive into the messy reality of life together.”
I sit there with this sort of magic pens and everything and I say, “Tell me about you.” I asked them to tell me about their loved one, but then we jump because life is messy. I let them take me, which is a social work thing, start where your client is on a journey. I learned about them, the family and the experiences they’ve had. Maybe they had trauma like you and I had. Maybe they had mental health in their family of origin. Maybe they had sudden death or multiple moves or financial crisis.
I don’t know where the map is going to take me but it’s going to take me. All of a sudden, in some ways these stigmatizes that identified loved one. At the same time, because I interview people individually, that’s that human story. We know that we could all be in the same room and see the same thing but we saw different things. I might then interview your brother, a sister, a mother, or an aunt and ask them to tell me this same question. It’s the same question. It’s, tell me what’s special about you, tell me about you, what’s special about your love one, why is your heart hurting, tell me about school, dancing, marriage, your sex life, your marital relationship, or how many partners you have.
All of it all of it but it becomes so rich then it becomes this colorful not artistic thing but it shows. You say, “Wouldn’t you do? Let me see,” because it’s a real curious. There is nothing more boring in my mind. Sorry, clinicians all over the world, been looking at a traditional genogram. Life is vibrant. Life is messy, and this gets to show it’s messy. Also, it becomes a great roadmap from where you might want to go. I remember a long time ago doing a live road map where you first were. It was the young man who we dearly love.
We were in a room and his mother had a brother and he died at age 36. This was live amongst audience and everything. She started to cry. This young man was there in your care for substance abuse and for some multiple other things. She started to cry because the story was, he had a heart attack but he didn’t have a heart attack. He died of HIV.
The moment she could let go of her secret, this young man jumped out of his seat and said, “I need to share.” We said, “Hold on. We’ll let you share.” What it was, he wasn’t sure about his gender and that family map in that moment gave him the opportunity to share and he wasn’t playing. He could have spent hours.
No one thought it was going to in that direction.
No one would have thought that. Another one that I remember so clearly was when I used to do them live in a large group. When someone dies you usually put a black X, but I came in one day and everybody had heard about it. I came in one day and this one goes, “I can’t wait to do a family map with you,” and I go, “Okay.” She said, “I got to tell you something.” I go, “What is it?” “I’m not going to put a black X over my brother.” I go, “What would you like to do?” She said, “I want to put a halo like he’s an angel.”
This was a young girl who was the identified loved one with multiple problems, alcohol, drugs, eating disorder, and cutting and her brother had died less than two years ago but we didn’t know at the time until we did the map how he died but he had a halo on because he was perfect. He was perfect and that’s what we learned. He died falling off of a parking lot where he fell to staff in a drug deal gone wrong. All the detention was directed towards this family. There was uncategorized loss and grief.
Mom, you could tell from the family map, it’s not like you could address all these things at one time. She had a lot of grieving and she internalized. She ended up with going on break and got sick. Dad had been a successful person, but he was in recovery. That map gave the clinician a roadmap of where you might want to go because it’s sitting there in live color here. What did you get out of that? I do love them and I still.
It takes a longer when you’re working with families. I won’t put a family together until I have a chance to interview them. I’m so grateful for Sara Lawrence-Lightfoot. For one, I was doing my doctoral degree on the subject unrelated to that on sudden death and loss and widowhood that I discovered this method. I know some people say, “Oh my God. How did she do that? These are the ravings of mad science.”
“I do love [working with families]. It takes longer when you’re working with families, but I won’t put a family together until I have a chance to interview them.”
They’re like big huge beautiful pieces of art that you can put on your wall. We can talk about our families. You can hear and listen and they can listen to each other, but when you look down at this butcher block paper and you see it. You see what you, your brother, your sister, your mother and dad said. It is just a whole different picture than the way that it started. It’s like that game telephone where you’re sitting a circle and it starts with a story and ends up in a different story. When you see it, it’s just a beautiful image of this family. I love that you do that.
If you remember, there was a book long time ago written by Lawrence Durrell and it was called the Alexandria Quartet. It was based on Einstein’s theory of relativity. I remember, I had the reading at the young graduate student and it took place in Morocco. This is the first time I experienced portraiture at its best. All of a sudden, it was like there were four books. I had no idea what Balthazar or Alexanderia. They were in the same market but each one thought differently through a different lens.
To me, that’s always stuck with me because what I see, what mom or dad or my partner might see are so different and we’ll all looking for is goodness. You’re looking for strength-based. The other thing that happens with this is, I sent the client to a long time ago or a while ago. I was hired to do the intervention on the woman. After doing the family map I said, “I’m sorry I can’t do an invitation to change on your wife. You need to go see Dr. Flowers first.”
I remember this now.
He went and came back. He said, “Louise, I want to thank you. I went with one addiction. I came back with twelve,” and then his wife could go but he no way could you have done that if I hadn’t done the family map. It’s just a great way if you have time and you know how to use it and do it to begin to join up because it makes everybody feel special. You and I both know in seven seconds seven.
You’ll see if there’s connection or there’s not.
If there’s not a connection, we could stand on our head from now until like Tisha Bob and do something.
Message Of Gratitude
You have such a skill for making that connection and that’s why you’re such an amazing interventionist. You’ve been an interventionist for many years. I think you’re certificate number was 3, which is wild to me. That’s amazing. You do so well because you do it in an invitational way and you make a connection both with the family first and then also with the identified patient.
I’ve been fortunate to see some of your intervention patients and sent my way. You certainly send to everyone around the country when it’s a right fit. Those that I have had the pleasure of working with have been amazing and stunning cases that were brought because of the work that you did with families. Thank you for what you do.
Thank you. What I’m having fun with now is a little bit of pivot. I’m blessed that some behavioral health care centers around the country are just giving me the families to work with. It’s like the family whisper, which is different and we’re starting because the person’s already here but that doesn’t mean they’ll stay there. Trust me. It doesn’t mean that but it means that people recognize how important good family work is and how we can join them to help move them to change over time. Talking about riding a bicycle backward. I don’t know how to ride a bicycle but I do know how to ride one backwards as long as it’s a stand bike.
“I feel blessed that behavioral healthcare centers across the country trust me to work with families. I like to think of myself as a “family whisperer.” We’re starting the journey with someone here, recognizing the vital role of good family work in facilitating lasting change.”
Self-Care
Which you love, by the way. Speaking of SoulCycle and spinning, you’ve done more than a thousand spins at SoulCycle. You had they had a party for you at West Hollywood. I remember the day it happened but you take care of yourself. You’re a spry, young woman in your 40s. You take great care of yourself. How do you take such good care of yourself and maintain? I tell people all the time, I don’t know how you have the energy that you have because I don’t have half the energy that you have. What do you do?
I don’t know. Lately, because I live in a whole different place and it was hard for me, I missed the noise.
You missed the noise of West Hollywood.
I do. In my fantasy, when I grow old, I’m going to live at the Sunset Marquis. I know all the dorman and we’re going to have a satellite office there.
There won’t be Eloise but there will be Louise at Sunset Marquis. Our favorite hotel.
It is just the noise. I like the noise. When I moved there, I’m trying to learn how to play pickleball. I am the only person I know that was ugly in a blue gym suit but it’s is fun. I’m not competitive about it because some of the words, you’re thinking and you’re in the kitchen. I don’t cook, so it’s like, what are you doing here? The people seem to be very vibrant and lively. A s long as you’re not with someone who is competitive and who’s just determined at any age to do it. It’s a lot of fun. Plus, it takes you out in the fresh air because we know that fresh air is good.
The other thing is, I do live in a middle of a force and I did like Billy Crystal. One of my wonderful neighbors, Lisa Moore, who is a wellington type equestrian. I said, “I want to go horseback riding.” I went horseback riding. When you walk around where I live, they’re the most beautiful horses. They’re just stunning. It’s being in nature. I still am an ocean person.
I have to say there’s some vibrancy, but getting outside of yourself. I get up very early. I like to ride at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning. A blog can get pushed out pretty quickly there. If I’m blessed to have clients, a lot of them are in Costa Rica, London and Texas. They’re in different parts of the world and you are getting an early start but the transitions are hard. When I feel like I’m getting closed in, when I feel like San Diego is closing in on me and I miss the noise, which is interesting because I never had that experience. I get up in my car and hightail it to West Hollywood.
I’ve talked to you a few times on the phone all the way to Hollywood. It’s amazing that you live in such a beautiful place. It’s quiet and amazing. I didn’t want to call it a neighborhood but a state. It’s also amazing that you need more sometimes. You’ll just get in your car and tell John, “I love you. I’ll see you someday. I’m going to West Hollywood for the weekend.” You’ll go do spin with SoulCycle and go see friends. Go to dinner, do a little work and a little riding and just enjoy the Sunset Marquis. I think that’s amazing.
The last time I was there, I got to see Manny who is one of your best friends. The dormant said, “Don’t worry. I never asked Michael Bolton for an autograph. I only asked you to autograph your book.” I go, “Thank you.” What a wonderful celebration we had when they honored you at Miriam’s house. What an honor to not only be at Miriam’s house to see you be honored, which was well deserved but also all of us staying at our favorite place.
That was an amazing weekend. Miriam’s house is one of the great causes I follow. They’re an amazing organization. You follow them and contributed as well.
I’m on the board now. I want you to come. I can’t always go up because I don’t do as much in LA as I want to because it is expensive journey to go stay at Sunset Marquis all the time. They’re having a Mother’s Day event, which I’m hopeful will be just slammed dunk. I think Felicia and Alexander is doing something and getting some stuff for them. I know Urban and the Mystic just gave some paleo sticks that they love Miriam’s house to give away to everybody. It’ll be in the garden and everything. It’s another way to celebrate these wonderful women who are changing the course of their life. It’s such a unique charity.
It was amazing to sit in the group and listen to mothers talk about their history, own trauma, childhood trauma, addiction, and mental health and then having children and then losing. A lot of them lost their children and then their journey to get their children back and to be in treatment with their children is amazing. What a gift.
It’s a lot of hard work. They’re in a middle of trying to raise funds to help reduce this converted nunnery that they’ve had and what a worthwhile. Only they could get that successful then duplicate it across. There’s so many women with children. I remember when I was on Katie Couric’s show. These woman, alcohol and other drugs have it harder so much, especially with young children. Where can I go? Where can I stay? It leads me to my question for you. What is your why? We’ve been talking about what are our whys.
Why
We were both sitting at a table having dinner saying, “What is your why?” Louise, my why is my history and my passion for seeing families come out of dysfunction, come into health, be able to thrive, and heal their wounds and their past. You and I both as you said have that in common and we’ve been able to do that and we still go to therapy. We still do things to make ourselves healthy. I will always go to therapy. I think we should all be in therapy constantly.
“My ‘why’ comes from my passion for helping families move from dysfunction to health, healing their wounds and pasts. We share this commitment, and even as therapists, we prioritize our own well-being. I believe everyone should engage in therapy continuously for their growth.”
My why truly is, I do this at a memory for so many family members that have lost in mental health addiction and how important it is to see people heal, thrive and change the course of their future generations because if we can’t change the course of our future generations, we’re going to continue in that dysfunction. That’s my why. I know in a couple of weeks, you’re going to be talking about your why as a keynote speaker in Colorado at the Winter Symposium. In what city?
I think it’s in Aspen or Snowmass. I’m very excited. We know I don’t ski but I can dress the part. I can put all my clothes on. I’m so excited to have all these beautiful sweaters, but I’m excited because it is a leadership conference. It will have CEOs and marketers there. It’s no better time than for them to figure out what their why is. They know their how and their what.
Audience, get ready. She’s going to ask you what your why is, so come ready.
What is your why?
Episode Wrap-up
Louise, thank you so much. If everyone or anyone but everyone will want to reach you. How do they reach you? I know AllAboutInterventions.com. Where else?
I’m the only person I know that still answers their own phone and it hasn’t changed since I was a professor. I lived in San Diego. It’s (619) 507-1699 or reach out to the website. I guarantee you I will pick up the phone or I will email you back. Thank you so much. Being used in Houston is always heart centered and synergistic. I leave so excited, so full of ideas, and do some writing about us it.
We’re constantly staying up late and talking about our crazy wild idea. I know. Thank you for being here. Safe travels. I love you. I’ll see you soon.
I love you. Thank you.
Everybody, reach out to J. Flowers Help Institute at (713) 783-6655 or JFlowersHealth.com. Thanks for joining us. Take Care.
Thank you.
Important Links
- Dr. Louise Stanger on LinkedIn
- JFlowers Health Institute
- Marcus Crutcher on Facebook
- Falling Up
- Sara Lawrence-Lightfoot’s Website
- Alexandria Quartet
- SoulCycle
- The Urban + The Mystic
- Dr. Louise Stanger’s Website
- Dr. Louise’s Interview on Katie Couric’s Podcast ‘Next Question’
- Addiction In The Family
- Learn to Thrive
- Silver Tsunami
- The Definitive Guide to Addiction Intervention: A Collective Strategy
