In Part Three of this very special series, Dr. James Flowers welcomes back to the show Tonda Chapman, Candy Finnigan, and Jeanie Griffin. Today, Tonda, Candy, and Jeanie talk about their experiences with interventions, reflect on servant leadership and share their passion for helping others.
Key Takeaways
00:02 – Tonda Chapman, Candy Finnigan, & Jeanie Griffin all join the show today to talk about interventions
07:18 – Servant Leadership
08:41 – Dr. Flowers opens up about the passion he has for helping people and how he manifested the life that he wanted
14:47 – Dr. Flowers thanks listeners for tuning in to Part Three of this series
Resources Mentioned
J. Flowers Health Institute – https://jflowershealth.com
J. Flowers Health Institute Contact – (713) 783-6655
Subscribe on your favorite player: https://understanding-the-human-condition.captivate.fm/listen
Tonda’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonda-chapman-3018b2154
Candy’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/candy-finnigan-8194068
Jeanie’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanie-griffin-d-d-lmft-lpc-lcdc-25a3939
Book Mentioned:
When Enough Is Enough – ThriftBooks
**The views and opinions expressed by our guests are those of the individual and do not necessarily reflect those of J. Flowers Health Institute. Any content provided by our co-host(s) or guests is their opinion and is not intended to reflect the philosophy and policies of J. Flowers Health Institute itself. Nor is it intended to malign any recovery method, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual, or anyone or anything.
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Tonda Chapman, Candy Finnigan, & Jeanie Griffin – Part Three – When Enough Is Enough
Introduction To Intervention
In this episode, we’re going to talk about part three of a three-part series with Candy Finnigan, Jeanie Griffin, and Tonda Chapman.
What we’re talking about is an actual intervention and when you’re having to do an intervention on someone. It’s loosely based on Candy’s book called When Enough is Enough and families getting to that point. Sit back and enjoy.
Candy, give us a piece of wisdom about interventions and for families who are considering an intervention. What should a family think about and look at?
They’ve done all they can. I wrote a book called When Enough is Enough. The reason it’s called that is because everybody has to hit that level. It’s devastating for a family to have a mentally ill or an addictive kid or a wife. Husbands and wives are different because they’re used to that pattern. As you were telling that story, I was laughing because when I got so old, my son said to me, “Maybe you should have a drink.” They got to school on time. I wasn’t at home coloring with them and a few other things.
For me, an intervention is when all else is failed and they don’t hear your voice. The worst thing about addiction and mental illness is that you don’t know how bad you are. The denial part of it is what keeps so many people from getting well, and awkward tomorrow or Monday. “I won’t drink until Thursday,” whatever you promise you can’t keep.
“An intervention is the last resort when they can’t hear you anymore. The hardest part of addiction—and mental illness—is that you often don’t realize how bad things are. It’s the denial that keeps so many from getting better.”
An intervention is helping a family. I don’t intervene with people. The family does but I teach them what they will hear and what the consequences are if they don’t get into recovery. I teach them to keep boundaries. I try to get them to go down on like asking somebody to walk across the streetway. To me, an intervention is a family process of teaching them how they can intervene in the person they love.
It’s nobody’s job to love somebody to death in an addiction world. Certainly, there are situations that happened but there is no such thing to me as an accidental overdose. Something could have been done. My interventions are teaching a family how to intervene. If there’s a circle, I don’t sit in the circle. That isn’t my circle. That’s their circle. I get to reprimand people, “That was nasty stuff,” or something like that but it’s not my job. I don’t know this person. When they walk into the room, they have no idea that it’s a stranger. Usually, it’s them.
Jeanie, tell us the funniest thing that’s ever happened to you during a family program.
I don’t know why this came. I saw this kid. When we first start, the staff comes in and introduces themselves and everything. We keep the clients out. I said, “I want ten minutes with the families.” I’ll say, “What’s your worst fear?” Eventually, somebody finally says death. That’s where this is headed. I’ll say, “Don’t take the bait.” When your client comes in here, they’re going to say things like, “I’m only here for mental health, not for substance.”
Don’t take the bait. I know you’ve taught them manners so I don’t care how awful they behave or how sweet in Goody Two Shoes they look. I’m not buying it. I’ve been doing this too long. The families are all sitting there like, “Oh, dear.” Don’t worry about the cussing because that was my first drug of choice as a child. When I didn’t get struck by lightning, I thought, “I could do this.”
I’ve had clients sit in the back, wear their caps, and say, “F you.” The parents get all stiff. I was like, “Don’t worry about it. Let me handle it.” Sure enough, as soon as I finish that, one of the clients will come in and here we have one of them who’s been a Holy Terror but is now Mr. Goody Two Shoes. One is flipping me off and everything. They won’t do anything and the parents are dying. I say, “Let me handle it. Don’t worry about that.”
One father of the guy who did that finally said, “That’s it. I’m not giving you your car. You can’t have a phone.” Invariably, when I go back to the center, and this is monthly, the guys who were telling me, “F you,” will come to find me and see me. I said, “You’re still alive. I don’t believe it.” “Yeah, I’m alive. I’m working.” I said, “You’re being self-supporting through your contributions. You are working. What are you doing?” He said, “I work for a vet. I express anal glands.”
I’m the one here on this program cussing a lot. I said, “Now, You’re getting rid of crap. Last time, you were full of crap.” This one came up to me. I said, “You’re here.” He said, “I’m having trouble with my parents. Do you think you could help?” I said, “Sure. What’s going on? You still have the flip phone they got you, right?” He said, “I’ve got to have an iPhone.” I said, “No, you don’t. A flip phone is fine. You’ll be fine.” Samsung is advertising a flip phone. I love it. See the laughter.
The Role Of Laughter In Recovery
When I first got into recovery and I looked for people like this, I was so grim and serious. I tell people, “We don’t have a hot and cold faucet for feelings, good feelings, and bad feelings. When we want to try to get rid of the bad feelings, we turn off that one faucet. When we do that, we’re leaving out all the joy. When you begin to finally walk through this stuff you’re so frightened of, embarrassed about, or ashamed of, you recover the joy and laughter.”
“In early recovery, I was so serious. I tell people, “We can’t turn off just the ‘bad feelings’ faucet—when we shut it off, we lose joy, too. But when we start facing the fears, shame, and pain, we reclaim the laughter and joy that were missing.’”
A woman asked me to go and said, “Come on over to the other room for substances. We have so much more fun.” I thought, “You do? I look in that room and you all are laughing.” Somebody says, “I got out of jail, walked across the street, and got hit by a car.” Everybody laughs. I’m going, “What is the matter with you people?” Over here in the other room, they’re all very peas, cues, and whatnot. I thought, “I belong over here.” It’s the laughter. We can laugh about things. You can’t even write this stuff. Nobody’s going to believe that. I love it.
Tonda, I know you have a healthcare MBA and you can talk about leadership all day long but from your heart, what do you believe about leadership? You’ve built an amazing program that you and I founded along with Michael several years ago. You were always the leader. Tell me how you lead with your heart.
I’ve studied a lot of leadership styles and servant leadership is my style. I love to join people. I look at what they’re trying to reach. I try to empower them, join them in the past, and make sure they have the resources they need to grow. I’m joining in the process. Servant leadership goes back to the spiritual person that I am. It rises above. I’ve read a lot of books on leadership and leading at a higher level. Servant leadership tops it all.
“Servant leadership goes back to the spiritual person that I am. I think servant leadership just rises above.”
My mom calls me the Pied Piper. When I walked through a baseball park, all these kids were hanging on me. She’s like, “Do you know those kids?” I said, “No, they know me.” They come to me. They are attracted. I love kids. Leadership is that way. When people know you care, they don’t care what you know because they know that you care. That’s who I am. I got that from my grandmother. She was my mentor. She loved all people. It gave me servant leadership on it.
Dr. Flowers, why are you still in this business? What makes you care so much? I’ve known you since the early ‘90s. You’ve never not kept progressing, whether it was treatment centers. You’re one of the finest clinicians when it comes to pain management. I do pain management interventions, which are very rarely done because of you. Why have you kept believing in this?
You did turn the tables on me, didn’t you? Is my face red?
Yes.
We have known each other for a long time. We’ve worked together. I’ve even assisted in some of your interventions over the years. I can’t believe I’ve been doing this for many years. That is insane. We are old. Mine comes from the passion of my childhood. I’m from South Texas. I grew up in a rural community. My father was a workaholic, alcoholic, and cheater. He cheated on my mom and beat my mom. My mom was an alcoholic, a valium addict, and a traumatized woman who got married when she was sixteen years old. She left McAllen, moved to Alice, Texas, and had two twin boys who died of birth. It goes on and on.
My family has been through so much death that it’s even beyond my comprehension. My niece, Marie Earthman, and I were talking in Nantucket. We were sitting down and talking about the family trauma that we have. We started laughing. We fell over laughing at who could have survived it. She said, “We have to do an episode.” Forthcoming is an episode series with Marie Earthman and James Flowers. She’s going to be brilliant because she’s brilliant in the social media area.
Family Trauma And Personal Resilience
We talked about the passion we have and the passion that I have for helping other people. I’m an adult child of a family of alcoholics and drug addicts. It’s beyond me, other than my God, as to why I am not an alcoholic, why I’m not dead, and why I’m not alive. My family was so incredibly dysfunctional. Candy, I could go five more hours on this so I won’t.
“It’s beyond me, other than my God, as to why I’m not an alcoholic, why I’m not dead, and why I’m not alive. My family was so incredibly dysfunctional.”
I witnessed what a wonderful son you were no matter what.
Thank you.
This makes me teary but also how an amazing uncle you are. They certainly come first. When I met you, I knew about them before I knew about you. The passion that you have and the realization, especially with pain management and what you do, is so overlooked in our business. The psychological pain and the rebound pain before that, I’ve never heard of any of that. That’s not taught. That’s learned from your experience. It’s like a little energized bunny. As soon as you change the battery, there it is again. You got new batteries and you’re stronger. It’s going faster. I’m immensely proud to know you.
Thank you.
I get teary when I think about people like us who dedicated their lives to this. Not only what’s going on but honestly, to share the care and love for those desperations that we’ve both been spared. All of us have been spared to be able to be well enough to help somebody.
I don’t feel like I work. I know you guys don’t feel like you work and you work your butt off every day. Working with some families, we do feel like we’re working but it is a passion. I wake up every day grateful and full of gratitude. Thank God every day for my life, what I have in my life, the people that I have in my life, and the family that I have.
“I didn’t inherit anything from anybody. I worked for everything I did, but I manifested it. And I did it with the help of myself, my God, education, hard work, passion, the people who love me, and listening to my own intuition.”
Life is amazing. I believe that we are limitless in our abilities. You talked about manifestation. I’m going to use the word manifest. I have manifested my life. “From an old wealthy South Texas family, you come from Kansas.” I didn’t inherit anything from anybody. I worked for everything I did but I manifested it. I did it with the help of myself, my God, education, hard work, passion, people who love me, and listening to my intuition.
That’s where your higher power speaks to you.
All day and all night.
The amazing thing about you, James, is that you always figure out what’s missing. We all try to figure out how we can make something better that’s created but not James. “I’m going to take this ugly piece of property, turn it around, and make it a spiritual place.” When they don’t allow you to do that, you go, “I’m out of here,” and then you’re on to the next. That’s an amazing thing that you do. When it works, it works but you’re not going to stand by and let somebody ruin it. You go right to the next. That’s an astounding survival.
I remember you saying to me in Arizona that one thing that’s missing is a diagnostic center. We tried to do it at this treatment center in Arizona and they wouldn’t let us because so many times, they didn’t need to be in treatment. He would go, “They don’t need to be here.” They’d go, “Can’t you make them? They don’t know.”
Never write that in the chart.
To have this diagnostic center and institute where nothing is overlooked is one of a kind.
Thank you so much.
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Closing Remarks And Gratitude
Thank you for joining us. We hope you’ll join us for part 2 and part 3 with Candy Finnigan and Jeanie Griffin. As always, if you have questions about J. Flowers Health Institute, please look us up at www.JFlowersHealth.com. Thanks so much. Have a great day.
